Watchmen is watching Deadline Games?

[JeppeKM]

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_i ... tory=19556
Episodic game release from DG w Warner.
(The comic rocked!)

Hvad er der sket med deres Warner Brothers cartoon projekter - er de gået døde, eller bør der ikke snart komme en udgivelse snart?
Og hvordan går det emd at få e publisher på Faith and a .45?

[nick]

:shock: what a load of crap - once again a (total over)dose of hype from those guys - suddenly, just like that tom &jerry thing that was canned, it's "one of the most important deals" deadline has struck. deadline's doing a license - it's work-for-hire - nothing the company will ever benefit from in terms of royalty. Even if reviews/sales are good - but I think we all know we're this is going...
License games based on external IP is extremely tougher work then own IPs - supertight budgets, gameplay restrictions and deadlines for deliverables etc - it's a survival tactic, not a healthy long term business strategy. Does mediamobsters ring a bell...?
And wasn't Simon (who claims the news was "leaked" by journalists in a sort of excited frenzy over these news - when every news site reports Warner announced it) just fired, along with a number of other staff?
As if digital distribution suddenly is the key to success, underplaying the obvious marketing and distribution challenges this pose?
looks like Faith (which, btw, is nothing more then the pre-overdose Bonny & Clyde concept after a slight make-over) is in deep freeze and will never get signed.
As a shareholder I'm sick and tired of these guys blowing smoke up my arse - share has plummeted and is 1/10 of the value since their initial quote on First North (when they said they had a contract to do total overdose II - only to announce a week later when all shares were sold that it was cancelled...) - doing licenses is not what they announced as a business plan, and it won't provide any upside for disgruntled shareholders ever. Nor will it buy time to sign their own IP - that would have happened long time ago if any such solid IP existed...
Tell it straight, fellas - you'll earn a lot more respect and credibility that way, cause no-one in the business is buying the shameless and overinflated plug anymore.

[jonaz.dk]

nå men det er da meget cool!
så har de da lidt at rive i og skal forhåbenligt ikke ud i flere fyringsrunder lige med det samme.
og en pæn produktion på CVet.

hm.. stadig intet nyt om 2008 releasen.

kender intet til Watchmen serien. reaktionerne på nettet virker lidt blandede (her meget tideligt).
alt fra "NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" til "det kunne jeg da godt lige nappe som en download hvis det ikke er for dyrt".
Og "det burde være et adventure spil".
Filmen virker til at have meget positiv hype omkring sig.
det skal nok smitte af på spilsalget.

2 signede episoder.. hmhm.
det bliver spænende at følge.

Det eneste man kan sige med sikkerhed om Deadline er: dramagaranti!


@nick
I understand your frustration as a share holder.
happy I'm not in your shoes.

guess you are right about the long term strategic aspects of the announcement.
any suggestions to what they might do to eventually satisfy the share holders?

[one-niner]

happy I'm not your shoes.

A shame really - I'd expect that to look pretty funny :P

\tom

[jonaz.dk]

@one-niner
mwhaha... woopsie! :oops:

det er jeg så også glad for jeg ikke er.
godt så!

[nick]

They have got to stop the grandstanding - they haven't made a dime on game production this century, and if they keep up the current direction, it's not likely they will ever deliver anything but glowing red numbers as bottom line.
If they come clean, fair enough - that would mean dropping their epic dreams of making triple-A games, and stop pretending and talking like they're a movie studio. I don't know how many times it's been promised a signed deal was imminent. Times are tough for independent studios, and rarely any brand new IPs are signed these days. So - go work on a project that will get signed - a minor XBLA or Wii project, a kiddie game, whatever - and build on that. Instead, we're still hearing about the Escobar thing, the Faith and a .45 project, the "secret" sci-fi shooter...unsigned pies in the sky, that's what they are, and that's what they'll remain.
And now this is blown out of proportion - Warner might well be testing the waters with this game project as a tie-in with their movie plans, so they won't get screwed by the end user once again when it comes to digital downloads. But it's still a license, and Warner's in full control - Deadline's being paid low end production costs and will never receive any royalty. Shares rose a bit from the abyss on the news that a new deal had been struck, but have plummeted back when the details on the deal became evident.
Any other registered company where stocks had been reduced to a tenth of their original value would usually have shareholders demand radical changes in management. I know some have already been pinkslipped, but I'm afraid more serious measures are required, before this company gets back on track. They need to announce radical changes in management, and if they can't find adequate domestic replacements, they need to airlift in a crack management team - as a current presidential candidate says, for "change we can believe in".

[JeppeKM]

Arg, jeg så lige rollelisten igennem:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0409459/
Jeg kender, hmmm, *tælle-tælle* ... less to none.

Enig med Nick. Get some work done! Kids Games, Wii, XBLA, NDS, SOMETHING! Der må være mandeår tabt i det firma efterhånden med unsignede projekter, desværre.
Men det skulle glæde mig om Watchmen skulle ende på gaden.
Warners forsøgs-strategi med episodic game releases i forbindelse med biograf premiere (1) og DVD-release (2) blver immervæk spændende at se hvordan udvikler sig. Er der en lille skat gemt i det kammer?

[Gorm]

Personally, I am just happy for all my mates at Deadline working on their new engine, that are finally getting a game out.

[Gryphon]

I am actually surprised Deadline hasn't crashed yet. With this in mind, I find this deal to be a good life raft while the management rework the strategies... new suits in command? Maybe, I'm not the one to say what's right or wrong in that matter... my mind is on the employees in the middle of all this chaos... must be stressful constantly fearing a lay off.

Hopefully this is a turning point...

[nick]

Gorm - I have no doubt there are very skilled and passionate guys at Deadline. But it's also a company that needs to turn a profit - it's the obligation of any responsible leader to ensure that those skills and that passion is applied in areas that are both productive and profitable, especially when that company have shareholders. Buying shares means you're willing to take a risk, because you believe in the business plan. If - after a couple of years - you see your investment decimated, I think you're entitled to expect changes, not a repetition of previous blunders. I think it's obvious that Deadline will not sign any own IPs in the triple-A genre in any foreseeable future, so as a shareholder, I want them to...no, let me rephrase that, circumstances dictate they focus on a different strategy. And not making licenses, cause that is a dead end in business terms - especially if you maintain a proprietary game engine aimed at making high end games for all the major consoles, and even more so with the overhead in this part of the world. Even IO will probably forsake their own engine, Glacier II, due to high maintenance costs and IO's/ScI's inability to commercialize it, and adopt the Crystal Dynamics engine or similar in the future.
I think everybody would like that Deadline was both a dynamic workplace and a profitable business - but right now, Deadline's only asset is that team of skilled and passionate employees, and Deadline's culling due to cutbacks. The exit for Deadline is either a M&A - which is unlikely on any terms that will satisfy shareholders, as there is no valuable own IP to trade (NDS took over ITE a couple years back, and they had a well-known brand - basically, they just picked up the company at a bargain price to get hold of the employees minutes before it went bankcrupt - the Hugo IP was close to worthless after years of mismanagement, and last I heard all future Hugo game production will be low budget versions on different handheld platforms, all coming out of China) - or Deadline redirects focus on making less expensive, less ambitious own IPs that can either be distributed by themselves digitally or signed quickly, thus creating real value in the company.
Again - doing licenses was exactly the downfall of Mediamobsters. It saved their ass for a short while, but it was barely enough to cover the running costs of the company, so they still had to rely on investments. It also reduced Mediamobsters' capacity to work on own IP, which eventually led to its closure.
Deadline's a listed company, and it's not every day listed companies go bankcrupt. But management is not addressing these tough issues with decisive action - I don't think it's responsible leadership to maintain work on a series of internal projects for years with such poor results.
The last thing anybody needs is more bad news in the Danish game industry. IPs have a very short shelflife in this business, whether it's from a start-up or an established company. If it doesn't get signed within the first year it has been announced, the hard facts are that it never will - due to either the business model, the management or inherent lackluster qualities in the IP, and more often than not, it's a combo of all three. Read the news - several larger game companies with more respectable track records than Deadline are currently in trouble - Pivotal, Flagship and now rumors on Activision-Blizzard divesting Massive and Swordfish (divestiture is a business euphemism for cutting off excessive fat).
So yeah - I think new suits are necessary to turn the ship around - to present new visions and reliable prospects for Deadline, to terminate pitching old projects that never delivered on the promise they were cranked up to hold. And preferably a team from overseas - the whole industry here needs new blood and a fresh start.

[Pelding]

Lidt mere info om Watchmen spillet her ( se omkring 19:00)

http://www.gametrailers.com/gametrailer ... .php?ep=29

[KringoBongo]

I am like Gorm really happy that the guys at Deadline has this great IP to fool around with... I honestly can't see anybody else lifting up the task of creating a game with the Watchmen IP... I know you'll have fun with it, guys...

@nick
I don't get it .... If you are a shareholder why are you bashing Deadline public? That is the last thing you would do if you want to get some money out of your investment.

[nick]

@kringobongo...oh, you mean like, let's keep pretending that everything's fine, and that the money will start rolling in soon - as we've been told regularly for ages, actually ever since overdose was still in production? Fact is deadline has not turned any profit on making games this century - and making licenses will not change that. I guess you believe in "positive thinking" , or maybe even buying the hype...?
Getting the most out of my investment is exactly my point, and certainly must be the concern of each and every shareholder. I am suggesting a different strategy and course of action, since none of the past or current (still unsigned) projects are likely to change that scenario.
Value of the company is now abt. 15 million D. kr, but no publisher/investor/competitor even wants to pick it up at that bargain price since there are no assets, only liabilities. So - what I'm suggesting is, leave the tried and tired projects, and focus on projects on a smaller scale that will get signed.
Imagine if deadline had come up with that frecle thing - http://www.frecle.com/ - (from a different post today)?
I'm expecting that to be signed, judging from the initial visuals and suggested gameplay - and budget - if the boys don't muck it up, and they have a solid business and production plan.
And imagine again if deadline signed a couple of similar projects, executed with their experience and expertise - then the company would gain not only reputation but more importantly - value. And there would be something solid to build on for the future - instead of those very ambitious projects that remain unsigned forever. It's been more than suggested by deadline in different media that making the Watchmen episodes for Warner will potentially be very profitable for deadline - but when they are challenged to come up with more details or numbers, they can't "because the deal is secret"....
If management had gone public with a message that they're doing a license to keep the wheels turning and everybody should keep their shirt on cause it's no biggie - then I think they would gain some respect, and everyone would understand we need to dig in for the long haul. Instead, they're blowing expectations out of proportion, as ususal.
The math is not that hard: Any triple-A game signed these days would need at least 1½ to two years in production, several months for marketing, manufacturing and just waiting on the shelf for the allocated launch to tie in with publisher's other products - that would mean either the end of current console lifecycle, or beginning of next. Both are poison in terms of sale for new games, for obvious reasons. So - best case scenario, if deadline sticks with current strategy - they actually do sign own, new IP (probably need to trade it off anyways to publisher as part of contract terms), and lukewarm reception from buyers means no royalty (as was the case with TO). So - company will make zero revenue for the next three years, at least - best case....
Sorry if I stepped on anybody's toes - burying your head in the sand doesn't work (although it looks funny in them old roadrunner cartoons...). I certainly do realize times are hard for independent studios, especially those with ambitions on making triple A games. If history has taught us anything it's when times are changing, contenders need to adapt to survive. Like everybody else, I want deadline to survive and grow stronger.
It's not dark yet, but it's damn well getting there...

[KringoBongo]

@nick No i don't mean that you should pretend that everything is fine. I just mean that it will never help stockvalues to bash a company in public... It creates a bad vibe..

[nick]

Believe me - several have tried for a long time to appeal for changes thru select channels. This debate has been going on in other fora for some time, it might just be new here.
The deadline studio is no different than any other independent game developer out there - very passionate, very skilled, very dedicated staff...but also burdened by very stubborn management stuck in their ways. Simply refusing to accept that the horse they been flogging for so long might actually be dead. This has been going on for ages - read the back catalogue of annual reports from the management, it always contains promises on imminent signing of own IP. But it never happens. The forecast for this year is another several million D.kr. deficit, and the way the company is burning cash it's just a matter of time before the shit hits the fan. They will soon be forced to issue additional shares, and if that isn't combined with a clear and new strategy on how to turn the ship around, disaster looms in the horizon.
Why do you think I'm saying this and still sticking to my bundle of shares? Because I just cannot believe things will not change - it would be sheer lunacy to allow the chartered course to continue and not make radical changes, there's a lot at stake for too many people.
Deadline won't sign any own titles currently in their portfolio, that's obvious by now. Bringing down the budget/terms/scope on current projects to a level that possibly would attract publishers would also mean selling the IP short and all but eliminating any profit on it. Scrap the illusions of grandeur and settle for a number of smaller, manageable, scalable, publisher-appealing games.

If there's a better idea to saveguard the future of deadline - great, then do that! If there actually is a project currently being seriously considered by a major publisher and in the final stages of negotiations - fantastic! If there is a solid deal of some sorts in the works that nobody except management knows about - hurray for Hollywood!

But what if there isn't? What if management just keeps on doing what they been doing for years, cause they don't know what else to do? They way they are embellishing the business opportunities coming out of doing this license for Warner indicates another rainbow chase. Show me the money...

When I bought the shares I wanted to support the Danish gameindustry in general, and deadline in particular, especially since they already had a signed contract on doing Total Overdose II. When it became apparent a week later that there actually was no such signed, binding deal - that was if not a real eyeopener, then at least a clear warning signal that apparently things were not as bright as reported by the management. That was almost three years ago, and the share has gone from abt 180 to less than a tenth of that - mainly because the promised imminent results of frequent publisher negotiations never materialized.
And now this deal is being reported as a potential goldmine by the management - nobody's buying the BS anymore, since the more diehard investors took the liberty of investigating the mechanics of the game business, as the promised results of management efforts never happened.
Don't shoot the messenger - I don't think chitchat on this frequency has any effect on share value. I'm just letting off steam cause I'm frustrated from obvious lack of promised results. Share has tumbled because my sentiments are shared by other shareholders. Three years of "good vibes" has turned into distrust in management's ability to create the necessary results, to make the necessary changes in portfolio and management strategy.

[nick]

@Voodooman - well, I'm not Mother Theresa, that's for sure. Of course I wanted to cash in at some point. Had I known to what degree information was distorted, even witheld, I would never have entered in the first place. But being supportive of this budding industry was also a motive - there were a multitude of other more solid stocks in greentech, biotech, transportation etc that offered both a better growth potential and security. It's not like it's my life savings - I can afford losing it. But I'm still entitled to bitch, I think...
Anyone can misjudge the market, rely on variables that change all too sudden and even get struck by lightning. Then you stick by your guns, back in the saddle and try again. But at some point, after a series of failed attempts, you have to realize your plan is wrong and a different approach is paramount. However, the deadline game plan seemed all too familiar with Groundhog Day:
The resentments accumulate over time - it's not like I felt I had to bail out just because the TO II deal failed. But then sales of the original TO tanked - no royalties, so that's a fail as well. Then the Escobar deal was pumped up as the next big thing - fail. Then the PSP version of TO (Chili con Carnage) - it came out alright, but again, no royalties due to disappointing sales, so that's a fail as well. Then frequent mention of "secret projects" - nudge, nudge, wink, wink....fail. Then a series of Tom & Jerry games were allegedly signed and were "one of the biggest deals Deadline had ever made" - fail. "Faith and a .45" announced - fail. And now Watchmen - judging from that clip from Gametrailers at ComiCon the ultra-unknown cast of the movie didn't even know about any game, and judging from the producer's remarks it's not a big thing, they just want something fast and cheap as a download. So instead of bickering after the fact this time - I raise the flag cause I see the hallmarks of yet another decoy.
When you begin scratching the veneer by asking around in the business - it appears that there never was a signed deal with Eidos or anybody else to do a TO II, although that - along with the promise of royalty on the original TO that had been launched just months prior - were the two exclusive reasons why the IPO was set at such a high value, essentially making the company worth close to 200 million D.kr.
So yeah - I've been thinking what you're saying - is using information in such a manipulative manner at all legal? Essentially no-one wants to touch that issue with a ten foot pole, especially now...
I'm not set on crucifying any singular person, and I don't think it's too late to redeem the company and get a deal on proprietary IP signed-produced-launched and sold in significant numbers. I just think it'll take a massive effort, and you need people who are not mired in past mistakes to do it. And I just don't think the major stakeholders will allow a continuation of business as usual, so I'm watching out for updates on the corporate page.